{"id":3914,"date":"2026-01-02T00:05:55","date_gmt":"2026-01-01T23:05:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/?p=3914"},"modified":"2026-02-01T11:25:12","modified_gmt":"2026-02-01T10:25:12","slug":"gesprach-ou-la-confrontation-du-texte-et-de-limage","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/index.php\/2026\/01\/02\/gesprach-ou-la-confrontation-du-texte-et-de-limage\/","title":{"rendered":"\u00ab\u00a0Gespr\u00e4ch\u00a0\u00bb, ou la confrontation du texte et de l\u2019image"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">La bande dessin\u00e9e ne peut pas \u00eatre d\u00e9finie comme \u00e9tant ontologiquement le fruit d\u2019une collaboration entre le texte et l\u2019image, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 l\u2019extraordinaire richesse de la tradition de la bande dessin\u00e9e muette, celle qui se passe d\u2019aucun mot et se repose sur la seule efficience des dessins pour d\u00e9velopper son propos. Richesse que je donnerai \u00e0 voir dans toute son \u00e9tendue en 2027 \u00e0 travers une exposition et un livre.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazyload size-medium wp-image-3916 alignright\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-203x300.jpg\" data-orig-src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-203x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"203\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"data:image\/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%27203%27%20height%3D%27300%27%20viewBox%3D%270%200%20203%20300%27%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%27203%27%20height%3D%27300%27%20fill-opacity%3D%220%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-200x296.jpg 200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-203x300.jpg 203w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-400x592.jpg 400w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-600x888.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-692x1024.jpg 692w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-768x1137.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-800x1184.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-1038x1536.jpg 1038w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-1200x1776.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach-1384x2048.jpg 1384w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Couve-Gesprach.jpg 1423w\" data-sizes=\"auto\" data-orig-sizes=\"(max-width: 203px) 100vw, 203px\" \/>Pour aujourd\u2019hui, j\u2019aimerais faire d\u00e9couvrir une curiosit\u00e9, un ouvrage exp\u00e9rimental et d\u00e9concertant dans lequel texte et dessin s\u2019absentent tour \u00e0 tour et, quand ils cohabitent, semblent chercher de nouvelles fa\u00e7ons de se confronter l\u2019un \u00e0 l\u2019autre.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\"><em>Gespr\u00e4ch<\/em> est un petit album cartonn\u00e9 de 36 pages, paru en Allemagne (\u00e0 Meersburg) en 1994, auto\u00e9dit\u00e9 par Manfred Kooistra et sa compagne de l\u2019\u00e9poque, Birgit Hartung, les coauteurs (auquel Gregor Abraham avait pr\u00eat\u00e9 son concours pour la mise en page). Kooistra dessinait et Hartung \u2013 \u00e9tudiante en th\u00e9orie de la litt\u00e9rature \u2013 prenait en charge le texte. L\u2019ouvrage s\u2019ouvre par le \u00ab chapitre quatre \u00bb d\u2019un roman de <em>fantasy <\/em>(dont il n\u2019existe que ce fragment). Suivent quelques pages de bande dessin\u00e9e, muettes, dessin\u00e9es dans un style pointilliste hyperr\u00e9aliste, dans lesquelles le dessinateur s\u2019autorepr\u00e9sente explorant les ruines m\u00e9di\u00e9vales de Meersburg, qui surplombent le lac de Constance. La troisi\u00e8me partie consiste en une discussion entre Birgit et Manfred au sujet du roman suppos\u00e9ment en cours d\u2019\u00e9criture. La sc\u00e8ne commence comme une BD classique, dialogu\u00e9e, \u00e0 ceci pr\u00e8s que chacun des deux protagonistes a lettr\u00e9 ses propres r\u00e9pliques, avec des inflexions cherchant \u00e0 manifester les intonations, la prosodie, etc. (\u00c0 cette \u00e9poque, Kooistra \u00e9tudiait la linguistique.) Le lettrage se fait de plus en plus irr\u00e9gulier et le dessin \u00e0 son tour se brouille, pour s\u2019effacer compl\u00e8tement au profit de monochromes noirs. Durant quelques pages, le verbal et l\u2019iconique sont l\u2019un et l\u2019autre en crise, trou\u00e9s, intermittents, jusqu\u2019\u00e0 ce que le dessin reprenne le dessus.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazyload aligncenter wp-image-3974 size-fusion-600\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-600x906.jpg\" data-orig-src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-600x906.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"600\" height=\"906\" srcset=\"data:image\/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27906%27%20viewBox%3D%270%200%20600%20906%27%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27906%27%20fill-opacity%3D%220%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-199x300.jpg 199w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-200x302.jpg 200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-400x604.jpg 400w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-600x906.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-678x1024.jpg 678w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-768x1160.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-800x1209.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-1017x1536.jpg 1017w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-1200x1813.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-1356x2048.jpg 1356w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/02\/gespraech-13g-copie-scaled.jpg 1695w\" data-sizes=\"auto\" data-orig-sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_3918\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3918\" class=\"lazyload wp-image-3918 size-fusion-600\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-600x887.jpeg\" data-orig-src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-600x887.jpeg\" alt=\"Manfred Kooistra, &quot;Gespr\u00e4ch&quot;\" width=\"600\" height=\"887\" srcset=\"data:image\/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27887%27%20viewBox%3D%270%200%20600%20887%27%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27887%27%20fill-opacity%3D%220%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-200x296.jpeg 200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-203x300.jpeg 203w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-400x591.jpeg 400w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-600x887.jpeg 600w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-693x1024.jpeg 693w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-768x1135.jpeg 768w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-800x1183.jpeg 800w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-1039x1536.jpeg 1039w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-1200x1774.jpeg 1200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-1385x2048.jpeg 1385w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p23-scaled.jpeg 1732w\" data-sizes=\"auto\" data-orig-sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-3918\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u00ab\u00a0Gespr\u00e4ch\u00a0\u00bb, pages 16 et 23<\/p><\/div>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Dans les pages 28 \u00e0 33, d\u2019une grande sensualit\u00e9, le texte s\u2019est \u00e0 nouveau absent\u00e9, et l\u2019on ne voit que les mains de Manfred et Birgit qui s\u2019effleurent, s\u2019\u00e9treignent, paraissant exp\u00e9rimenter diff\u00e9rentes fa\u00e7ons de se m\u00ealer et de se disjoindre, comme si \u00e0 travers cette conversation tactile elles m\u00e9taphorisaient les instances m\u00eames du mot et de l\u2019image, cherchant \u00e0 t\u00e2tons les voies de la collaboration en d\u00e9pit de leur h\u00e9t\u00e9rog\u00e9n\u00e9it\u00e9 constitutive, en m\u00eame temps qu\u2019elles disent la distance entre l\u2019homme et la femme qui, m\u00eame dans l\u2019amour, ne parlent pas tout \u00e0 fait le m\u00eame langage.<\/p>\n<p><img decoding=\"async\" class=\"lazyload aligncenter wp-image-3919 size-fusion-600\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-600x176.jpg\" data-orig-src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-600x176.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"600\" height=\"176\" srcset=\"data:image\/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27176%27%20viewBox%3D%270%200%20600%20176%27%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27176%27%20fill-opacity%3D%220%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-200x59.jpg 200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-300x88.jpg 300w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-400x117.jpg 400w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-600x176.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-768x225.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-800x234.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-1024x300.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-1200x352.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/Gesprach-p29-1536x450.jpg 1536w\" data-sizes=\"auto\" data-orig-sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Le titre, <em>Gespr\u00e4ch<\/em>, signifie conversation, entretien, mais peut aussi prendre le sens de \u00ab rencontre-d\u00e9bat \u00bb. Selon moi, il d\u00e9signe ici \u00e0 la fois les \u00e9changes entre les deux protagonistes et cette confrontation entre les deux \u00ab mati\u00e8res de l\u2019expression \u00bb utilis\u00e9es.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">De ce petit livre \u00e9trange, dont l\u2019interpr\u00e9tation reste ouverte, Manfred Kooistra\u00a0conc\u00e8de qu\u2019il manque d\u2019un v\u00e9ritable r\u00e9cit et est quelque peu \u00ab surcharg\u00e9 d\u2019exp\u00e9rimentations \u00bb. C\u2019est le seul qu\u2019il ait dessin\u00e9 ; mais il avait publi\u00e9 quelques-autres histoires courtes entre 1990 et 1993, dans des revues confidentielles (<em>Spr\u00fchende Phantasie<\/em>, <em>Wandler <\/em>ou <em>Panel<\/em>), dont certaines \u00e9taient muettes. C\u2019\u00e9tait le cas, notamment, de \u00ab\u00a0Coed\u00a0\u00bb, dans <em>Hit it!<\/em> n\u00b0 9 (1992), ou de \u00ab\u00a0Argoat\u00a0\u00bb, dans <em>Ink!<\/em> n\u00b0 1 (juin 1993), deux r\u00e9cits en 5 pages qui s\u2019apparentent \u00e0 des r\u00eaveries \u00e9rotiques.<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_3920\" style=\"width: 610px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-3920\" class=\"lazyload wp-image-3920 size-fusion-600\" src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-600x854.jpg\" data-orig-src=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-600x854.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"600\" height=\"854\" srcset=\"data:image\/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg%27%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27854%27%20viewBox%3D%270%200%20600%20854%27%3E%3Crect%20width%3D%27600%27%20height%3D%27854%27%20fill-opacity%3D%220%22%2F%3E%3C%2Fsvg%3E\" data-srcset=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-200x285.jpg 200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-211x300.jpg 211w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-400x570.jpg 400w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-600x854.jpg 600w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-719x1024.jpg 719w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-768x1094.jpg 768w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-800x1139.jpg 800w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-1079x1536.jpg 1079w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie-1200x1709.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/12\/argoat-3-copie.jpg 1222w\" data-sizes=\"auto\" data-orig-sizes=\"(max-width: 600px) 100vw, 600px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-3920\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">\u00ab\u00a0Argoat\u00a0\u00bb, page 3<\/p><\/div>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Kooistra a ensuite d\u00e9laiss\u00e9 la bande dessin\u00e9e pour une tout autre carri\u00e8re, devenant psychoth\u00e9rapeute, tout en continuant d\u2019\u00e9crire, sous pseudonyme, de la fiction litt\u00e9raire.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>La bande dessin\u00e9e ne peut pas \u00eatre d\u00e9finie comme \u00e9tant ontologiquement le fruit d\u2019une collaboration entre le texte et l\u2019image, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 l\u2019extraordinaire richesse de la tradition de la bande dessin\u00e9e muette, celle qui se passe d\u2019aucun mot et se repose sur la seule efficience des dessins pour d\u00e9velopper son propos. Richesse que je [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3922,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[70],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3914","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mon-blog"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>&quot;Gespr\u00e4ch&quot;, ou la confrontation du texte et de l\u2019image - le site de Thierry Groensteen<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.thierry-groensteen.fr\/index.php\/2026\/01\/02\/gesprach-ou-la-confrontation-du-texte-et-de-limage\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"fr_FR\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"&quot;Gespr\u00e4ch&quot;, ou la confrontation du texte et de l\u2019image - le site de Thierry Groensteen\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"La bande dessin\u00e9e ne peut pas \u00eatre d\u00e9finie comme \u00e9tant ontologiquement le fruit d\u2019une collaboration entre le texte et l\u2019image, \u00e9tant donn\u00e9 l\u2019extraordinaire richesse de la tradition de la bande dessin\u00e9e muette, celle qui se passe d\u2019aucun mot et se repose sur la seule efficience des dessins pour d\u00e9velopper son propos. 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